Transcript of Doorstop Interview by President Tharman Shanmugaratnam in Brunei, 26 January 2024

Question 1: During the State Banquet you mentioned about raising the relationship between Singapore and Brunei, from a strategic level to a higher level. You also talked about the importance of trust between Singaporeans and Bruneians. Can you forecast for us the future of bilateral relations between Singapore and Brunei and also why it continues to be important in the future?

President Tharman Shanmugaratnam: Well, it's a special relationship. But it's a special relationship that rests not just on strategic considerations or common strategic interests. It has always rested on personal relationships. It is founded on the relationship between Mr Lee Kuan Yew and Seri Begawan, in fact going back much earlier than our 40 years of diplomatic relations. And it's been renewed ever since by successive leaders in Singapore. My predecessors as well played an active role. So the personal relationships really matter. Because at the end of the day, it's a relationship of trust. It's not just the Currency Interchangeability Agreement. That is of course important and, the most important, our defense cooperation. Those are extremely important, but you need the trust and the personal relationships.

I am very happy to be able to make my first State Visit to Brunei. It's my fourth visit to Brunei, but the first time I've had the chance to sit down and have extended conversations with the Sultan as well as with Crown Prince Billah and other members of the Royal Family, both in formal and informal settings, and I found that very valuable. And the Sultan was very generous with his time.

Question 2: So, some of Singapore's closest partners such as Indonesia and the US are holding elections this year, and or, like Malaysia have relatively new governments. So how is Singapore navigating such geopolitical uncertainty and what role do you see your office playing to manage these relations?

President Tharman Shanmugaratnam: Well, it's an uncertain time – globally, not just in the region because of elections. Globally it's an uncertain and fragile time. The world order is gradually being eroded, and is splintering.

We have to take the world as it is. We are very small. We express our views, stand by our principles, but we have to learn to interact with countries as they evolve. And they don't always evolve in a direction we may think best but that's not ours to decide. What matters is to have an active foreign policy, with constant engagement with others, and through thoseengagements, being able to express our views, but also to find ways in which we can keep up and update relationships. We do it with the largest players – the US and China, European Union, India, And we do it very actively in the region, constant interaction at many levels, most especially among political leaders, but also senior officials, and our business community plays a role as well. So as a small country, it matters more than for most to have that active foreign policy. Not expecting to shape the world as you think it should be but making sure that we can serve Singapore's interests as the world around us gets reshaped.

Question 3: How do you hope to conduct Singapore's bilateral relationships in your term? How differently would you want to do so, and my second question is, you have been on two overseas trips in your private capacity after the constitutional change. So how was it different from before and any thoughts to share?

President Tharman Shanmugaratnam: It’s not very different from before, but I intend to be active as a President in serving Singapore's national interests abroad. It's an important role of the presidency and because of my background, I intend to be active in that role.

My trips so far have involved both traditional roles as a Head of State, as well as the not so traditional role when I'm chairing various international bodies and the like. But they are all in the furtherance of my presidential duties. Nothing I do is for private interest. The term ‘private capacity’ that's used in the Constitution, is a bit of legalese, but it simply means that there are some roles I could play internationally where I have to express independent views, so that we are credible when I'm chairing various bodies, for instance. They are all in furtherance of my presidential duties and the national interests. That’s the basis on which Cabinet decides on which bodies I should play a role in and it's working well so far.

I have already had two trips which combine both the traditional role of the Head of State, such as directly pursuing bilateral cooperation or giving a lecture, as well as my playing roles in international bodies, which are still in Singapore’s broader interests.

When I went to New York in December, I delivered a ‘Key Distinguished Lecture’ at Columbia University, as well as had bilateral meetings, both in my traditional Head of State role, and also chaired the Group of Thirty where I have to express myself independently even if everyone knows I am there as President.

Likewise, my meetings in Davos and Zurich recently. I had lots of bilateral meetings at the World Economic Forum, very useful meetings with other Heads of State and Heads of Government. Also took part in some WEF sessions as President. But I also attended a meeting of the board of trustees where I had to express my views independently. Likewise in Zurich, I chaired the Global Water Commission - again, it’s where I have to be credibly independent, although I'm still there as President of Singapore.

It is working well. And I intend to be active in furthering Singapore's interests abroad in both these roles.

Question 4: Very quickly, you could sum up, this particular State Visit?

President Tharman Shanmugaratnam: It has been an excellent State Visit. The warmth and hospitality that was evident from the very start, on the part of the His Majesty Sultan and Raja Isteri, towards my wife and myself. The meetings included various ministers. The informal interactions were extremely useful - chatting over dinner last evening or breakfast this morning, exchanging views on the region and global challenges besides the bilateral opportunities. And of course, the Sultan and Raja Isteri are very fond of their family and their grandchildren, and we spoke about them too.

Question 5: What's happened on this trip so far, over the last couple of days, you and the Sultan as well have mentioned how younger leaders are encouraged, you know, to take the leap going forward because past relationships have already been established. How do you see the 4G leaders, you have some younger ministers with you on this trip and MPs as well, how do you see them forging their way going forward?

President Tharman Shanmugaratnam: The Young Leaders Programme is the main platform for this, which DPM Lawrence Wong now co-chairs with Crown Prince Billah. And at the 9th Young Leaders meeting in December in fact, DPM Wong made very clear that the 4G leadership will keep up and strengthen these personal relationships that have bonded Singapore and Brunei. The Young Leaders Programme is going to be a very important platform for doing so.

That I think is clear. We are very clear about the importance of not just continuing with past practice, but adapting as times change and developing new relationships. Thank you.